Dave Reese, Master Cicerone
It’s fitting that Dave Reese is from Milwaukee, otherwise known as “Brew City”—with its legacy of brew barons that goes back to the 19th century. Now based in Biloxi, Mississippi where he operates Fly Llama Brewing, Reese is recognized as one of the world’s foremost beer experts. Last November, after over a decade of study and failed attempts, he achieved the esteemed distinction of Master Cicerone—the highest level of certification one can acquire on the knowledge of beer and brewing. He is one of only twenty-eight individuals in the world who has successfully passed the rigorous test, and the only one in Mississippi. As he prepares to open his newest venture, Copper Llama Distillery, sometime in the next year, we reached out to learn more about what it takes to become a Master Cicerone, and the secrets to enjoying the “perfect beer”.
How did your interest in beer and brewing begin?
In early college, I got into home brewing. I was going to school for chemistry at the time, and I was working in the hospitality industry—managing bars and clubs and working around Milwaukee. I was homebrewing.
I ended up getting a job managing a brew pub at the time, and the owner and I hit it off. He didn’t have a brewer. And he's like, “Listen, if you want to be my brew master, I'll pay for your education. I was like, “hell yeah.” I ended up going to Siebel Institute of Technology, and I got my degree in brewing there around 2010. And then it was off to the races.
I kind of cut my teeth in his place, and I learned a lot. The industry was pretty different than it is now, and we were pretty experimental at the time. I remember taking a lot of risks. I made some good beers, made some bad beers, but I was just good at it. I always had a palate. I was blessed with a very good palate. So, I worked there for five or six years, and then I got sick of the winters and sick of the cold. So, I started looking for an opportunity, and I ended up taking a job as brewmaster in Gulfport Mississippi at Chandeleur Brewing Co. After five or six years working for them, I felt it was time to open my own place and started down that path. And eventually opened up Fly Llama in 2021.
What made you want to pursue this highest level of brewing education, to become a cicerone?
It was kind of like the quest for knowledge, I guess. I wanted to do something extraordinary. And at the time, when I decided I wanted to pursue the Master Level, there were probably like fourteen masters who had passed the test at that point. I loved what I was doing. I thought I was good at it. And I guess it was a little bit of ego. To me, passing that test was like the best thing that I ever could have done.
What was the preparation like for this test? Why are there so few masters?
I think I passed Level One like ten or twelve years before I passed the Master. It’s not something you can just do overnight. The amount of knowledge that you need—it is absurd. It's an absurd amount of studying and preparation you have to do. Just the memorization you have to do. I lived and breathed this industry, but when you get a few months out, you have to literally start training, like for a marathon. You’re doing flashcards—I mean when it comes down to it, you’ve got to cram. I wouldn’t have been able to pass this without the team around me, and my family. My poor wife endured endless blind tastings.
But the journey to get there made me such a better brewer. I traveled all over the world studying for this test. I got 120 hours of classroom flavor training from Dr. Bill Simpson—who is considered one of the best in the world. And ultimately what I was chasing is a merit badge to do it. But it's the hustle to get there that was so worth it.
Taking the test was an awful experience. It’s two days, and I had to take it three times to pass. On the third time, over those two days I turned in over seventy pages of written essays. There are oral exams where you’re sitting across from some of your heroes—Randy Mosher, guys that I’ve idolized since I entered the industry. You sit down at a table and they’re grilling you, and it’s intimidating. You’re really putting yourself out there, putting it all out there—making yourself really vulnerable. Most people don’t pass this test on their first try, so to do this you have to accept that you’re probably going to fail a few times, and that’s just part of it. But if you want to be one of the best, that’s what you’re going to do.
What was it like in the moment, learning you had passed?
I remember getting the call and I told my wife I was going to meet her for lunch. I remember going down the street and buying a very, very expensive bottle of tequila, and walking to my parents’ deck downtown, and I was like “we gotta talk”. We sat down and we polished off that tequila and a six pack, and that was a really great day. That was a really happy day. It was a lot of emotions, a lot of relief that I didn’t have to go through it again.
Now that you are a Master Cicerone, what has that meant for your profession?
For me, it was really more about the journey. If you’re in consulting or beer education it’s probably a bigger deal than it was for me. There wasn’t a whole lot of change. We had a couple of TV cameras show up. But I honestly did it just to become a better brewer, and I think it shows in our liquid at Fly Llama.
Ironically, one of the first things we did after I passed was sign up for distilling school. We recently bought the building across the street from the brewery, and are going to open up a distillery. That’s the next horizon. Beer is my one true love, but there are a lot of similarities in the industries. Now, we’re going to take that fermentation knowledge and apply it to making spirits.
How do you go about evaluating a beer?
Now, when you go through extensive flavor training, there’s certain things you do to evaluate a beer. You hold it in a certain way, you swirl it in the glass in a certain direction and at a certain speed. And when you train yourself, what that does is it tells your mind that you’re in evaluation mode. So you perceive the beer and evaluate it in a different way. When you really look into a beer, there’s a lot of things you’re going to find that most people don’t realize are there. But there are also times I just want to sit on the back porch and enjoy a beer, and it’s hard for me to turn off. If I’m drinking one of my beers, it’s absolutely impossible.
Now, I know this is a simple question that has no simple answer—but what makes a perfect beer, in your opinion?
Wow. That is a loaded question. The perfect beer, it’s relative. There’s a perfect beer for every moment. Where are you? Who are you with? Are you sitting on a back porch? Are you eating some aged cheese? Are you having a burger? A piece of cheesecake? What is a perfect beer? It just depends on the moment.
Now, desert island beer? I’d probably say Augustiner Helles—well, nah I couldn’t just pick one. Guinness dry stout is probably one of my desert island beers. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
What advice would you give folks who are amateurs interested in learning more about how to appreciate beer?
First step would be to go to your local brewery or go to your local taproom. There’s more breweries now than there’s ever been in the history of the U.S. and a lot of them are struggling, they need our support. Start at the source, it’s always going to be fresh, it’s going to be local. There’s so much to learn there and brewers want to share their knowledge.
There’s also homebrew clubs, and certainly a lot of local support with social media and things, some really fantastic groups on Facebook.
But just work on your palate. Become a taster, pay attention to things. I have a magnolia tree in my front yard and I will not walk past it without going up and smelling those beautiful white blossoms. One of the things my wife and I love to do is go to the grocery store, split up, and we’ll each buy like three mystery ingredients and then get home and blind taste test each other. Flavor is just a big part of our lives. But challenge yourself, develop your palate, question things.
And there are some great books out there—Tasting Beer by Randy Mosher, that’s where everyone should start. That’s step one, and from there, there are a lot of places you can go.
Try Reese's beers at Fly Llama Brewing, 186 Bohn St. Biloxi, MS 39530. flyllamabrewing.com.
